Legislature(2013 - 2014)BUTROVICH 205

03/06/2014 09:00 AM Senate STATE AFFAIRS


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09:00:42 AM Start
09:01:34 AM SJR23
09:24:51 AM Confirmation Hearings
10:02:31 AM SJR18
10:29:17 AM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ Confirmation Hearings: TELECONFERENCED
Commissioner Curtis Thayer, Dept. of
Administration
Michele Christiansen, State Commission for
Human Rights
Richard Burton, Alaska Police Standards Council
Nora Barlow, Violent Crimes Compensation Board
Immanuel Lewis, State Commission for Human
Rights
*+ SJR 23 CONST. AM: STUDENT LOAN DEBT TELECONFERENCED
Moved SJR 23 Out of Committee
+= SJR 18 FEDERAL CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
*+ SB 149 HEARINGS ON REFERENDA TELECONFERENCED
Scheduled But Not Heard
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
            SJR 18-FEDERAL CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
10:02:31 AM                                                                                                                   
CHAIR DYSON announced that the committee will take up SJR 18.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
10:04:29 AM                                                                                                                   
TYLER  BELK,  Staff,  Senator Dyson,  Alaska  State  Legislature,                                                               
Juneau,  Alaska, inferred  that  the committee  was addressing  a                                                               
resolution  that looks  at one  of the  great documents  in human                                                               
history, the  United States Constitution. He  said the Convention                                                               
of States (COS) is a means  to examine and amend the Constitution                                                               
without putting  the document's entirety  and integrity  at risk.                                                               
He asserted  that COS is  a great opportunity to  operate without                                                               
ramification and  the possibilities  are endless. He  pointed out                                                               
that COS  is non-partisan and  topic-based. He said the  "will of                                                               
the  time" will  determine what  is covered  in the  COS. He  set                                                               
forth that a  COS will be a monumental occasion  in United States                                                               
history  that  looks  at something  that  essentially  binds  the                                                               
country.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
10:06:01 AM                                                                                                                   
CHAIR DYSON stated that it is  often very difficult for change to                                                               
come  from  any bureaucracy  and  the  process often  takes  some                                                               
outside action to overcome the  institutional inertia. He said it                                                               
appears  to   him  that  the  Founding   Fathers  recognized  the                                                               
bureaucratic process  and wanted to  have a way for  the citizens                                                               
to   initiate  and   affect  the   possibility   to  change   the                                                               
Constitution. He pointed  out that SJR 18 is a  first step to get                                                               
Alaska in the queue of states  that are considering calling for a                                                               
COS  and  there  will  be  several  steps  pertaining  to  rules,                                                               
delegation selection,  delegation discipline,  topic limitations,                                                               
topic  agreement,  and COS  ratification  by  two thirds  of  the                                                               
states prior to going  on a ballot. He set forth  that the COS is                                                               
a very complicated  process. He pointed out  that the individuals                                                               
working on the  COS have been very careful about  the process and                                                               
noted that  most objections  have been dealt  with in  a credible                                                               
way.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
10:07:54 AM                                                                                                                   
ROBERT  KELLY,  Staff  Council,  Convention  of  States  Project,                                                               
Citizens for Self-Governance, Purcellville, Virginia.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR DYSON asked  if there were three or four  groups across the                                                               
nation that are working somewhat in  parallel on COS. He asked if                                                               
Mr. Kelly to specify what his organization does.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
10:08:31 AM                                                                                                                   
MR.  KELLY   replied  that  he  represents   Citizens  for  Self-                                                               
Governance  and  the  organization  sponsors  the  Convention  of                                                               
States Project (COSP).  He said COSP is arguing for  an Article V                                                               
Convention that specifies a particular  set of topics for the COS                                                               
to cover.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
He said there  are three different approaches  from a legislative                                                               
standpoint on how an Article V Convention can be run:                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
   1. COS could be run as an unlimited convention, effectively                                                                  
     allowing the  COS to consider  any sort of  issue determined                                                               
     to  be in  the  best  interest of  the  American people.  He                                                               
     pointed out that  an unlimited COS is not  the best approach                                                               
     because  the COS  needs guidance  and limitations  to ensure                                                               
     the process stays within proper Constitutional boundaries.                                                                 
   2. Set out a specific topic or set of topics, allowing the COS                                                               
     some  discretion   to  consider   exactly  how   to  propose                                                               
     solutions  and word  amendments; however,  it also  keeps it                                                               
     closely within  certain boundaries  and that's  the approach                                                               
     COSP is taking.                                                                                                            
   3. Hold the COS to propose specific amendments and layout in                                                                 
     advance  the  amendments  that the  COS  can  propose;  that                                                               
     really limits the discretion of the COS.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
He reiterated  that COSP's approach  in SJR  18 is in  the middle                                                               
realm by setting out  a set of topics that the  COS has to adhere                                                               
to, but  allows the COS  some discretion  to propose a  number of                                                               
amendments within those  topics. He explained that  the topics in                                                               
in SJR 18 are:                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
   1. Place fiscal restraints on the federal government.                                                                        
   2. Limit the power and jurisdiction of the federal government.                                                               
   3. Impose term limits on federal officials and members of                                                                    
     congress.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. KELLY  said COSP believes the  use of set-topics is  the best                                                               
approach  because  COS  will  have the  ability  to  address  the                                                               
problem  of  federal  overreach  as  a  whole  and  allow  for  a                                                               
"holistic" solution to massive imbalance  of power in the federal                                                               
government; a COS  limited to a single  isolated amendment cannot                                                               
do that.  He explained  that COSP  likes the  idea of  a balanced                                                               
budget  amendment,  but  passing   one  in  the  current  federal                                                               
political climate is  likely to result in a massive  tax hike. He                                                               
set forth  that COSP believes a  better approach is to  allow the                                                               
COS  to consider  the problem  as a  whole, to  consider it  as a                                                               
topic, and to allow the  COS to formulate exactly what amendments                                                               
will address a problem; for  example, federal overreach. He noted                                                               
that  the  topic-based approach  was  the  approach the  Founding                                                               
Fathers used  for the  vast majority of  the 32  conventions that                                                               
they  held  in the  years  leading  up  to  the adoption  of  the                                                               
Constitution.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
10:11:33 AM                                                                                                                   
SENATOR  WIELECHOWSKI  noting  seeing some  commentary  from  law                                                               
professors that  there is some  question as  to whether or  not a                                                               
COS  could be  limited to  specific items  in the  resolution; in                                                               
other words,  once you  got there, anything  would be  opened. He                                                               
asked  if  there  was  legal precedent  that  would  address  the                                                               
concerns the anything would be opened.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR.  KELLY  replied that  the  Supreme  Court  has never  had  an                                                               
opportunity   to  address   the  legal   question  that   Senator                                                               
Wielechowski presented  for an Article  V Convention.  He pointed                                                               
out that there  is an extensive set of  historical practice, both                                                               
by the Founding Fathers and  by Americans since the founding. The                                                               
Founding  Fathers   themselves  held  at  least   32  conventions                                                               
themselves in  the 100 years  leading up  to the adoption  of the                                                               
Constitution.  He   noted  having   records  of  at   least  four                                                               
conventions since the  founding. He said in the  vast majority of                                                               
the  conventions, the  Founding Fathers  and the  individuals who                                                               
held conventions  after the  founding, a  specific topic  for the                                                               
COS  had been  set  out to  consider and  that  was the  backdrop                                                               
against which the  Founding Fathers were adding  the provision to                                                               
the Constitution  and the Founding  Fathers limited their  COS to                                                               
specific topics  and stayed within  boundaries. He  asserted that                                                               
from  a historical  record that  it is  clear that  an Article  V                                                               
Convention could also be limited within specific topics.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR DYSON announced  that SJR 18 will be held  in committee and                                                               
asked that Mr. Kelly call back to testify at the next meeting.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR.  KELLY confirmed  that  he  will be  available  for the  next                                                               
hearing for SJR 18.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
10:14:10 AM                                                                                                                   
ZABRINA  BYFUGLIEN,  Student,   Tri-Valley  High  School,  Healy,                                                               
Alaska, stated that  she supports SJR 18 and the  COS in order to                                                               
address federal overreach.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
10:16:46 AM                                                                                                                   
MADISON  OWEN, Student,  Tri-Valley High  School, Healy,  Alaska,                                                               
stated that she supports  SJR 18 and noted that the  COS is not a                                                               
partisan  issue and  ultimately returns  the Constitution  to the                                                               
Founding Father's original intentions.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
10:19:23 AM                                                                                                                   
ISABELLA SAXE,  Student, Tri-Valley  High School,  Healy, Alaska,                                                               
said  she  supports   SJR  18  due  to   the  federal  government                                                               
overstepping its bounds. She addressed  fears for a "runaway" COS                                                               
and  noted  that  checks  are  in  place  to  prevent  a  runaway                                                               
scenario.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
10:22:25 AM                                                                                                                   
NICOLE MCMASTER, Student, Tri-Valley  High School, Healy, Alaska,                                                               
said  she  supports  SJR  18  due  to  the  federal  government's                                                               
overreach and continued debt spending.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
10:24:50 AM                                                                                                                   
CHAIR DYSON commended the students  for their testimony. He noted                                                               
that his  staff member  that presented  SJR 18  is an  intern and                                                               
encouraged  the  Healy  students  to pursue  their  interests  in                                                               
government.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  GIESSEL thanked  the students  for  their testimony  and                                                               
noted her  appreciation for their  knowledge of  American history                                                               
and  critical thinking  skills. She  remarked that  the students'                                                               
testimony provide her with hope for the next generation.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
10:26:31 AM                                                                                                                   
DAVID  EICHLER, State  Director,  Convention  of States  Project,                                                               
North Pole,  Alaska, said he  supports SJR  18 and its  intent to                                                               
enact limitations on the federal government.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR DYSON remarked that the process for  a COS is going to be a                                                               
long fight. He surmised that the  process to have a COS will take                                                               
three years or longer. He  encouraged volunteers like Mr. Eichler                                                               
to continue their commitment for a COS and not to quit.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  COGHILL noted  the  case brought  forward  by the  Healy                                                               
students was  articulate and  emphasized the need  for SJR  18 to                                                               
keep pressure on  the federal government to have  a discussion on                                                               
having a  COS to deal  with the  national debt. He  remarked that                                                               
the students pointed  out that they already owed for  a debt that                                                               
had been left to them and future generations.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
10:29:07 AM                                                                                                                   
CHAIR DYSON announced  that the committee will  reconvene [SJR 18                                                               
was held until the next committee meeting.]                                                                                     

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